Comments on: One Laptop Per Child? http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/ Roman Kennke's ramblings Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:35:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Bill Kerr http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3340 Bill Kerr Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:57:12 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3340 "That means reasonable and sustainable pedagogic concepts that are tailored to these children in these countries. If there’s documents about this please point me to them, I am really interested" well known educational theorists seymour papert and alan kay are both heavily involved with OLPC and have both given talks and interviews about their educational ideas in this connection <a href='http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/01/seymour-papert-interview-on-olpc.html' rel="nofollow"> seymour papert interview </a> <a href='http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/alanKay' rel="nofollow"> alan kay </a> “That means reasonable and sustainable pedagogic concepts that are tailored to these children in these countries. If there’s documents about this please point me to them, I am really interested”

well known educational theorists seymour papert and alan kay are both heavily involved with OLPC and have both given talks and interviews about their educational ideas in this connection

seymour papert interview

alan kay

]]> By: This note’s for you » One Laptop Per Child revisited http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3331 This note’s for you » One Laptop Per Child revisited Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:22:48 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3331 [...] In my latest rant about OLPC I probably sounded a little extremistic. I’d like to add that I don’t think that computers are generally bad for children. Especially in the developing countries there is probably good use for them, especially when it is not possible to have schools or something similar. I think I got a little annoyed because many discussions that I’ve seen take the OLPC as a cure for many problems that it can’t be, and the focus is mostly on technical issues, on 3rd world issues and others, but not on the children. When done right, the OLPC is surely a nice opportunity to help the developing countries. For this to work we would have to include the children and the special needs of 3rd world countries into our focus. And that doesn’t (only) mean childish themes and desktops. That means reasonable and sustainable pedagogic concepts that are tailored to these children in these countries. If there’s documents about this please point me to them, I am really interested. [...] […] In my latest rant about OLPC I probably sounded a little extremistic. I’d like to add that I don’t think that computers are generally bad for children. Especially in the developing countries there is probably good use for them, especially when it is not possible to have schools or something similar. I think I got a little annoyed because many discussions that I’ve seen take the OLPC as a cure for many problems that it can’t be, and the focus is mostly on technical issues, on 3rd world issues and others, but not on the children. When done right, the OLPC is surely a nice opportunity to help the developing countries. For this to work we would have to include the children and the special needs of 3rd world countries into our focus. And that doesn’t (only) mean childish themes and desktops. That means reasonable and sustainable pedagogic concepts that are tailored to these children in these countries. If there’s documents about this please point me to them, I am really interested. […]

]]> By: Bill Kerr http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3325 Bill Kerr Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:53:28 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3325 The notion that young, poor children even when unsupervised can't get good value from a computer is challenged by the Indian <a href='http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm' rel="nofollow"> hole in the wall </a> experiment "An Indian physicist puts a PC with a high speed internet connection in a wall in the slums and watches what happens..." "What he discovered was that the most avid users of the machine were ghetto kids aged 6 to 12, most of whom have only the most rudimentary education and little knowledge of English. Yet within days, the kids had taught themselves to draw on the computer and to browse the Net. Some of the other things they learned, Mitra says, astonished him" The sugarUI is not an inferior UI but a well thought out design by <a href='http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/alanKay' rel="nofollow"> alan kay <a>, the man who invented the GUI and Smalltalk programming language I teach students from Africa (eg. Sudanese) who have survived massacres of their families, walked out to Kenya, spent years in refugee camps and now live in Australia. Guess what? They are disadvantaged by their poor computing skills. I'm annoyed at the people here who want to keep it that way The notion that young, poor children even when unsupervised can’t get good value from a computer is challenged by the Indian hole in the wall experiment

“An Indian physicist puts a PC with a high speed internet connection in a wall in the slums and watches what happens…”

“What he discovered was that the most avid users of the machine were ghetto kids aged 6 to 12, most of whom have only the most rudimentary education and little knowledge of English. Yet within days, the kids had taught themselves to draw on the computer and to browse the Net. Some of the other things they learned, Mitra says, astonished him”

The sugarUI is not an inferior UI but a well thought out design by alan kay , the man who invented the GUI and Smalltalk programming language

I teach students from Africa (eg. Sudanese) who have survived massacres of their families, walked out to Kenya, spent years in refugee camps and now live in Australia. Guess what? They are disadvantaged by their poor computing skills. I’m annoyed at the people here who want to keep it that way

]]> By: macewan http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3319 macewan Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:35:34 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-3319 I've enjoyed watching the larger tech. companies falling over themselves to 'get involved' with this area. The Microsoft me2 factor is rather funny. I’ve enjoyed watching the larger tech. companies falling over themselves to ‘get involved’ with this area. The Microsoft me2 factor is rather funny.

]]> By: Lillian http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2671 Lillian Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:53:54 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2671 I think I agree or disagree with you. I grew up with a computer since I was 3, and maybe thats the reason I am where I am today. But then again, 2 decades ago there was no internet (i.e. instant messaging), so my experience on the computer entailed playing with DOS; WordPerfect, Leisure Suit Larry and Frogger. I have to say growing up with a computer helped me excel in different areas, but its a different story for a child that grows up with instant messenger and all the other corrupted areas of the internet. OLPC is definitely a good cause. As mentioned in several other comments. Of course it would be good if these children had loving parents and access to libraries, stereos and hockey arenas... but unfortunately not the case for third world countries. OLPC gives these children the ability to connect with the rest of the world, and develop their minds without the help of money, parents and teachers that may be non-existant. Definitely liked reading your opinion on this situation. I think I agree or disagree with you. I grew up with a computer since I was 3, and maybe thats the reason I am where I am today. But then again, 2 decades ago there was no internet (i.e. instant messaging), so my experience on the computer entailed playing with DOS; WordPerfect, Leisure Suit Larry and Frogger. I have to say growing up with a computer helped me excel in different areas, but its a different story for a child that grows up with instant messenger and all the other corrupted areas of the internet.

OLPC is definitely a good cause. As mentioned in several other comments. Of course it would be good if these children had loving parents and access to libraries, stereos and hockey arenas… but unfortunately not the case for third world countries. OLPC gives these children the ability to connect with the rest of the world, and develop their minds without the help of money, parents and teachers that may be non-existant.

Definitely liked reading your opinion on this situation.

]]> By: DDD http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2663 DDD Thu, 21 Dec 2006 21:57:02 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2663 I too am mildly disappointed with what I saw with OLPC. The idea of teaching *proper* computer skills would be such a great idea (sysadmin, running web-sites, investigating and writing Open Source software). Then I looked at the UI they were designing; "Sugar" What a bizarre concept! It looks like a glorified PS2 console game. Is it really gong to be any use in learning how to use a real computer? Wouldn't the kids be better off using Gnome (heck, even Windows)? What children need is a real computer with a full command line and compiler. This would teach computing. Playing around with substandard MS Paint clones and Instant Messaging with flashing emoticons isn't really doing anything useful. DDD I too am mildly disappointed with what I saw with OLPC. The idea of teaching *proper* computer skills would be such a great idea (sysadmin, running web-sites, investigating and writing Open Source software).

Then I looked at the UI they were designing; “Sugar” What a bizarre concept! It looks like a glorified PS2 console game. Is it really gong to be any use in learning how to use a real computer? Wouldn’t the kids be better off using Gnome (heck, even Windows)?

What children need is a real computer with a full command line and compiler. This would teach computing. Playing around with substandard MS Paint clones and Instant Messaging with flashing emoticons isn’t really doing anything useful.

DDD

]]> By: roman http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2661 roman Thu, 21 Dec 2006 18:40:16 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2661 I agree that I shouldn't compare our situation with the situation in the 3rd world. I still think that there are much more useful ways to help than dumping loads of laptops on the children. Maybe all this is a non issue anyway. I have no real clue about what they mean with child. For me, a child is younger than ten (approx) and I don't believe that children at that age can properly deal with computers at all, or learn from it anything really useful. For older children, sure we can _help_ them with laptops. But that doesn't cover what I mean with learning. Learning is not sucking in all kinds of information (what is what a computer can provide). Learning is much more. Learning is a kind of experience, something which a computer cannot provide. That said I don't think it makes much sense to focus only on OLPC. This should only be a small part of a larger plan. Maybe it is, I have no idea. When it is, then my ranting has no point. I agree that I shouldn’t compare our situation with the situation in the 3rd world. I still think that there are much more useful ways to help than dumping loads of laptops on the children.

Maybe all this is a non issue anyway. I have no real clue about what they mean with child. For me, a child is younger than ten (approx) and I don’t believe that children at that age can properly deal with computers at all, or learn from it anything really useful. For older children, sure we can _help_ them with laptops. But that doesn’t cover what I mean with learning. Learning is not sucking in all kinds of information (what is what a computer can provide). Learning is much more. Learning is a kind of experience, something which a computer cannot provide. That said I don’t think it makes much sense to focus only on OLPC. This should only be a small part of a larger plan. Maybe it is, I have no idea. When it is, then my ranting has no point.

]]> By: Uzytkownik http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2659 Uzytkownik Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:21:50 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2659 If I know OLPC target are countries and I don't think our experience exactly fit their conditions. Anyway I agree that's not probably their greatest need. I haven't seen UI (flash is closed and gnash only sometimes works) but I heard it's very far from most desktops - if it's true they will have to learn a bit before work and what is the point? If I know OLPC target are countries and I don’t think our experience exactly fit their conditions. Anyway I agree that’s not probably their greatest need. I haven’t seen UI (flash is closed and gnash only sometimes works) but I heard it’s very far from most desktops - if it’s true they will have to learn a bit before work and what is the point?

]]> By: Mario http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2652 Mario Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:21:57 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2652 I agree totally with you. The OLPC initiative has lots of interesting uses, but should be given to children when they are actually "ready" to use computers: not to soon, not to late. I tend to consider the OLPC more as a good way to help developing countries to get affordable and usable computers, that can be used as learning tools in schools (which was the original goal, targeting children around 11/13 or so). It is clear that this is not a solution, but an additional tool. The problem that the OLPC does not solve and need to be addressed by governments is how to "normalize" the situation so that children can have what I agree they deserve: point 1, 2 and 3 of you post. I wrote few articles about the OLPC, though I'm not following this subject anymore. My guess is that it is sligly misunderstood, most probably because tha same leaders of the project do not have a clear ieda of what this toy really is. And I suspect that it tries to solve things in the american way (no offence here, really), without thinking that countries that will use this tools have a completely different culture. When I wrote about the OLPC I was critical about the fact that the money needed to buy the laptop could be used in other projects, like water, like restoring deserted areas, or just in schools. But it is not as easy as it sounds... or well, maybe Groucho Marx is right: solving these problems is really so easy that a child could find the solution... We just have to find this child... I agree totally with you.

The OLPC initiative has lots of interesting uses, but should be given to children when they are actually “ready” to use computers: not to soon, not to late.

I tend to consider the OLPC more as a good way to help developing countries to get affordable and usable computers, that can be used as learning tools in schools (which was the original goal, targeting children around 11/13 or so). It is clear that this is not a solution, but an additional tool. The problem that the OLPC does not solve and need to be addressed by governments is how to “normalize” the situation so that children can have what I agree they deserve: point 1, 2 and 3 of you post.

I wrote few articles about the OLPC, though I’m not following this subject anymore. My guess is that it is sligly misunderstood, most probably because tha same leaders of the project do not have a clear ieda of what this toy really is. And I suspect that it tries to solve things in the american way (no offence here, really), without thinking that countries that will use this tools have a completely different culture.

When I wrote about the OLPC I was critical about the fact that the money needed to buy the laptop could be used in other projects, like water, like restoring deserted areas, or just in schools.

But it is not as easy as it sounds… or well, maybe Groucho Marx is right: solving these problems is really so easy that a child could find the solution… We just have to find this child…

]]> By: Mark Wielaard http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2648 Mark Wielaard Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:36:04 +0000 http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/#comment-2648 I tend to see the olpc project as providing children with essential learning tools. It is just a glorified book (or actually lots of books), plus an environment to experiment with things that the book/laptop tells you about. It gives children a new and exciting way to learn stuff, especially those that don't have access to all the knowledge we are so accustomed to and that we would like to see shared by children in developing parts of the world. And it is a communication device, so children can more easily play with each other over larger distances. Maybe it isn't an ideal tool for your children who have easy access to knowledge, books, schools, parents with lots of time, the choice of entertaining toys to play with when they want and easy ways to communicate with anybody everywhere when they need a friend to share ideas with. But do you really think it is crap for children in developing nations who might not have easy access to all of that yet? I tend to see the olpc project as providing children with essential learning tools. It is just a glorified book (or actually lots of books), plus an environment to experiment with things that the book/laptop tells you about. It gives children a new and exciting way to learn stuff, especially those that don’t have access to all the knowledge we are so accustomed to and that we would like to see shared by children in developing parts of the world. And it is a communication device, so children can more easily play with each other over larger distances. Maybe it isn’t an ideal tool for your children who have easy access to knowledge, books, schools, parents with lots of time, the choice of entertaining toys to play with when they want and easy ways to communicate with anybody everywhere when they need a friend to share ideas with. But do you really think it is crap for children in developing nations who might not have easy access to all of that yet?

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